Our achievement-oriented culture urges us to push through adversity, overcome all obstacles, and strive for success. Yet, quitting — like failure — is a normal part of life. There will be times in our jobs, relationships, friendships, business ventures, sports, and pastimes, when the best option is to quit.
So why is it okay to quit and when should we do it?
Thanks to the following guests for participating:
Renowned author and speaker Seth Godin is an entrepreneur, and educator. He is the creator of Seth’s Blog, a popular online destination filled with advice on marketing, work values and team building. He is the writer of numerous bestselling books including Linchpin: Are You Indispensable, Tribes: We Need You To Lead Us, and Purple Cow: Your Business By Being Remarkable. We chatted about his incredible book The Dip: A Little Book That Teaches You When to Quit, which was the tenth book at the time, although his most recent book was The Practice: Shipping Creative Work.
Parenting teenagers expert and psychologist Angela Karanja.
Dr Catherine Wilkins, healer and the founder of Fractology.
Zoe Foster, artist, author and creator of the SacredExpression™ method.
Monika Martin, a life transformation coach and certified yoga teacher of Embody Your Flow.
Martin Fisher, who is the co-founder and teacher of Body of 9, an innovative, body-based personality assessment.
Oliver Rolfe, founder and CEO of Spartan International, a Global Life/Career and Health/Wellbeing Consultancy, and Executive Search business.
Self-kindness coach of Nourishing Soulfully Peta Coote.
Shona Hirons from Mindset in Motion, also known as The Burnout Angel.
Here are some of the resources from the show:
Coonoor Behal talks to New Degree Press on her book I Quit! The Life Affirming Joy of Giving Up.
Books looked at this week:
Seth Godin: The Dip: A Little Book That Teaches You When to Quit
Coonoor Behal: I Quit! The Life Affirming Joy of Giving Up
PS. I do not receive commission for reviewing books and talks.
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Exploring how we can master ourselves by looking at how experts say it is possible with your host Suswati Basu.
Welcome to season 2 episode 69 of How To Be…with me Suswati as your timid presenter, guiding you through life’s tricky topics and skills by reading through the best books out there.
Nobody likes thinking of themselves as a quitter, but there’s no point in staying stuck in something if it’s not accomplishing anything or making you happy. In those cases, it’s sometimes wiser to cut your losses of time and energy. But it can be incredibly difficult to pinpoint the moment when you know you should throw in the towel.
So how do you know when to quit?
Here is parenting teenagers expert and psychologist Angela Karanja, Dr Catherine Wilkins, Healer and the founder of Fractology, and Zoe Foster, artist, author and creator of the SacredExpression™ method on their thoughts.
ANGELA KARANJA: Now, here is my litmus test. When something is causing me more pain than the expected gain, then it’s time to let go. Because here is what I know: lifegiving adventures, anything that is meant to help us, uh, grow, it does not kill us. It does not destroy us. It does not steal our, uh, peace. The enemy can’t kill and destroy. And that’s how you know when this is an enemy of your life or something, that’s for your highest good. So whatever is of your highest good, you keep. You stay put. But whatever is killing, stealing, or destroying you, you let go.
DR CATHERINE WILKINS: Uh, when you feel stark in life, ah, it’s important to be able to tell the difference if it’s a lesson in persistence or a lesson in flexibility, being able to know whether you need to keep going or if you need to find a different way is a wonderful key to a life of more grace and ease. But telling the difference, that’s the trick. And my trick to do this is a statement of intention to the universe. I say, if this is the way, open the way. If this is not the way, close the way. The results are immediate and very clear. It either becomes absolutely impossible or, uh, the next step opens up. And that’s when I know whether I need to keep going or whether I need to find a different way. And you can, too.
ZOE FOSTER: How do you know when to quit something? I want to say that, first of all, resistance is normal. We have normal, natural, perfectly acceptable rhythms, cycles, moods, emotions. And we are always going to keep having those little niggles about something, whether it’s a relationship, a project, what you eat daily. We all have those different rhythms. So honour that. And when it comes up for you, journal it out. Really explore the themes that keep coming up, because sometimes it’s not what you think. But if you do keep coming up against the resistance procrastination feelings of ugh, uh, then it’s probably time just to take a sacred pause. It doesn’t have to be equipped straight away, but take that pause. Don’t burn your bridges. Don’t be hasty, but honour those feelings.
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Our first book is from renowned author and speaker Seth Godin, who is also an entrepreneur, and educator. He is the creator of Seth’s Blog, a popular online destination filled with advice on marketing, work values and team building. He is the writer of numerous bestselling books including Linchpin: Are You Indispensable, Tribes: We Need You To Lead Us, and Purple Cow: Your Business By Being Remarkable. We’re chatting about his incredible book The Dip: A Little Book That Teaches You When to Quit, which was the tenth book at the time, although his most recent book was The Practice: Shipping Creative Work. Here is a snippet but find the full interview on www.howtobe247.com or on the YouTube channel.
SETH GODIN: They’re not related at all. Failing fast means that there is a lock in front of you, a, uh, ah, safe that’s locked and you have to crack the safe. Well, the best way to do it is to start now and start trying combinations to see which one opens the safe. If you wait until you’re sure you have the perfect one before you even try, you’re never going to get started. You learn something every time you try the wrong combination. But quitting is realising you cannot open the safe, walking away and doing something productive instead. And so failing fast is an exploration, whereas quitting is about allocation of resources, focus and energy. So what I argue in the book is that best is not up to the creator, it’s up to the consumer. So if I type into a search engine, please show me the best knitting shop near me. Well, I don’t want to go to the fourth best knitting shop. Why would I? The very definition of the best one is the one that will serve my needs. And what happens is we filter that priority through our friends or through a search engine, or through some other sort of ranking as a proxy for what is the best for, uh, us. And this led to the idea of the smallest viable audience figuring out who exactly, if they knew what you knew and you knew what they knew, who exactly would say that that’s the best one? So here we are on your podcast, which you’ve been generously creating for more than a year, right? Long time.Anyone who’s listening to this is not listening to something else. We can only listen to one podcast at a time. And so for the person who is listening to it, it is the best choice right now. And to make a podcast that you don’t believe is the best choice for anyone is a waste of time. Because why would anyone listen to a podcast that isn’t the best choice for them? So here’s what we got trained to do. Uh, and you’re not from where I’m from, m I went to school in the state near, uh, Buffalo, which is near 6 hours from New York City. Um, we are trained to not quit that. There’s a lot of applause for people who stick it out, who persist. But guess what? Successful people quit all the time. That if you took ballet lessons when you were three, you’re not a ballerina. Now, sometime between then and now, you quit ballet so that you could learn to play the flute, and then you quit learning to play the flute so you could learn to be a better partner or whatever you chose to put your energy into. And what I believe is that if we’re going to do anything professional, meaning we’re asking someone else in the world to trade something of value for it. Showing up and saying to someone, I’m very, very busy and I’m working on lots of things, this is the best I could do, isn’t particularly generous. Instead, what we could do is say, I’ve tried to have empathy for you and what you need. I tried to see the world through your eyes. And based on that, I have given up lots of other things I could be doing and put the effort into this one thing that here in this moment is the thing that you really want. And the fact is, someone else is doing that. And if you don’t do that, that person’s going to get the sale. You’re looking for the connection that you seek. So what we have to do is say, you know what, I can’t simultaneously be a great paediatric nurse, be a great nuclear engineer, and be a great politician. Because if I try to do all three of those things, I’m going to be mediocre at all three, as opposed to being really good at the thing that I’m going to commit to. Right? So first I need to distinguish hobbies. Actual hobbies are just for you. And if it’s just for you, do whatever you want. Don’t compare yourself, don’t measure, because it’s just for you. What I am talking about is anything that is for someone else. And so that’s the difference between someone who likes to cook for themselves and someone who wants to open a restaurant. If you’re going to open a restaurant and you’re going to say, our menu is longer than anybody else’s, well, then it better really be longer than everybody else’s. And you better be hoping to attract people who are attracted to a long menu. Or you can say, we’re the best fried tofu restaurant in Great Britain, and then that better be true, because that’s the thing you’re betting on. Uh, and what I don’t answer in the book is a specific step by step way to know when to quit. Because the purpose of the book is to just get you looking for that maths, because it’s going to be different for every person. But here’s a couple of the hints. Has anyone in history who has what you have ever gotten through the dip, from the frustrating part to the other side where it works out? Uh, how many people in history have ever, without a record label, starting from a place that’s outside the music industry, made a record that has become a number one worldwide bestseller, pop hit? Because if that’s your goal, I got to tell you, you’re not going to get there by sitting in your bedroom with, um, some software. It’s not going to happen. It’s never happened. The alternative is to say, pick something to work on where someone before you has gotten through the dip and made it to the other side if you want to be a heart surgeon, we know how heart surgeons become heart surgeons. You can follow the path now, every once in a while, someone goes through and does something that’s never been done before. I’m not against that. I’m just saying it’s a little unrealistic.
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The Dip is about the common struggle we all face when we undertake an ambitious project or embark on a new career. Godin points out we can greatly increase our chances of success by preparing for the inevitable dip into difficult and trying times. The Dip is the strenuous effort and the struggle before you can perfect something.
Sometimes the Dip can be purposefully built-in to a process as a way of finding out who the most dedicated and hardworking people are.
Imagine you’re a student in the US, thinking of going to medical school. One of your mandatory classes in the first year will be Organic Chemistry – a fiendishly difficult subject that will eat up a great deal of your study time. While Organic Chemistry isn’t the most important class in the curriculum, it creates a Dip that causes many students to throw in the towel early on. That way, universities weed out who they deem to be less dedicated to the subject. A similar strategy is used in hiring processes for jobs, after numerous rounds, the company whittles down the ones who stick it out.
The good news is, by recognizing these Dips for what they are, you can find comfort in the knowledge that they’re supposed to be difficult and that it will get easier if you just stick with it.
Godin says aiming for being the best at what you do can bring you phenomenal rewards, as opposed to having modest, realistic goals. Take ice-cream flavours, for example: coming in at number one is vanilla, which accounts for 30 percent of all ice cream sales in the US. Meanwhile, chocolate comes in at second, but only accounts for 10 percent of the sales.
That’s a huge difference between the best and second-best – and this phenomenon applies to more than just snack foods. According to Zipf’s law, a significant gap between first and second place can be found everywhere, from record sales to the top colleges. Naturally, Zipf’s law also means that being number one comes with huge profits, but there are also less obvious perks to being the very best at what you do. One you can get a lot of extra benefits such as word of mouth praise or recommendations, and two, you have a choice to make the rules.
The author also believes that in a post-school world, being good at everything isn’t as important as being top of class in one area. In other words, success is about specialising in something. This obviously makes career decisions a lot easier. And your clients or customers, etc. only matters that you’re good at that job and not anything else.
An important part of specialising is learning how to strategically quit the things that get in the way of you being the best at what you do. However, most people have been taught that quitting is wrong, and that they should stick with any project they’ve started and never give up.
Unfortunately, people can’t be truly exceptional and the best at a wide range of things. Instead, people need to make distinct choices, which means quitting intensive pursuits that aren’t related to your central focus. But even when you choose wisely, you’ll face a dip.
As the saying goes, “knowing is half the battle.” And knowing that a Dip is on the way is an important insight that gives you time to plan ahead and to familiarise yourself with what your particular Dip will look like. During each step of this slow and frustrating process, it will be tempting to call it quits, so it’s important to remember that the Dip will end as long as you persevere. And the Dip will be there in your personal projects as well such as when you learn a language or an instrument. Not to mention your relationships. It’s never plain sailing and not always fun.
Ultimately, whatever your project is, the sensible thing to do is to welcome the challenges it presents and be thankful for them rather than trying to resist them. Indeed, finding ways to overcome challenges is what makes an activity stimulating and rewarding. The point of taking on any job is to meet and overcome challenges. Taking on challenges is the very essence of growth and development. So if you really push yourself to your limits, you will not only survive, but thrive in the Dip.
Competitors will apparently use the Dip to their advantage, while surviving the Dip will help elevate you above mediocrity. Often, one of the primary motivations of a competitor is to lengthen your time in the Dip. Specifically, an established competitor will create a marketplace that makes it very hard for you to gain a foothold.
The tech giant Microsoft, for example, turned programs like Word and Excel into industry standards. As a result, the market for word processing and spreadsheet software has been virtually impregnable. Given how extremely hard it is for a rival to catch up, they’ve effectively put any potential competitor into a prolonged Dip.
Nevertheless, it isn’t impossible. Competitors have succeeded in changing the platform on which the services are offered. In order to successfully compete with Microsoft, Google has focused on web-based word processing and spreadsheet services that are built-in to a customer’s Google account. Persevering through the Dip can bring out the best in you and even make you more talented than when you started.
What you need is patience and grit to get through the Dip, otherwise known as determination. This is certainly true for sales: In one influential study, researchers found that if a salesperson can’t convince a customer to buy after five sales pitches, they’ll give up on them. However, the study also showed that 80 percent of customers were more likely to make a purchase after hearing seven sales pitches. Therefore, most of the salespeople were calling it quits too early. If they’d just shown a bit more grit and patience they might have sealed the deal.
Even ingenious ideas can spend a long time in the Dip before they become popular. A good example is the shoemaker Jimmy Choo. Born in 1948, Choo had been making quality shoes since he was 11 years old. But his career didn’t take off until he was in his late thirties, a couple of years after he moved from Malaysia to London and opened his first American shoe store in 1986. While he was always a talented craftsman, it was his grit and perseverance through the Dip that really allowed him to become an iconic international fashion brand.
While it’s undoubtedly beneficial to have grit, it’s nevertheless wise to know when to cut your losses and quit a project that’s clearly falling apart. But there’s also a smart way to both quit and simultaneously stick with your chosen field.
When something is clearly not working, there’s no sense in letting it continue to drain your time, energy and resources. But that doesn’t mean you should quit the market that you’ve grown familiar with and gained experience within. Doing so would just be yet another waste of your time, energy and resources.
The next time you feel like quitting, make sure you consider all your options before throwing in the towel. It’s best to take the time to think creatively – beyond all the obvious choices. When you find yourself in the Dip, don’t doubt yourself and your commitment or abilities. Instead, lean into it and think of it as your friend, not your enemy. In the end, you’ll find yourself stronger and in a better position for having risen to the occasion.
Before we go to the next book, here is Monika Martin, a life transformation coach and certified yoga teacher of Embody Your Flow, Martin Fisher, who is the co-founder and teacher of Body of 9, an innovative, body-based personality assessment, and intuitive coach, business mentor, Wellbeing Radio Host and Light the Way author Natalie Farrell, on quitting.
MONIKA MARTIN: Despite it not working, does it still light your soul on fire? Do you still feel every cell of your being coming to life when you think about it, does it still turn you on? If so, it could be a good thing to ask for help in whatever field you may be struggling in right now, to get unstuck and make it work. Because if you still fill it up, then it would be premature to quit. Don’t give up, because there’s always a way out. If, on the contrary, it doesn’t make you feel alive anymore and you’ve kind of lost your drive, then it’s probably time to let it go and it’s perfectly fine. Our needs and dreams evolve as we do, and change helps us grow. Remember that life is short and you don’t want to waste it doing something that doesn’t bring you joy anymore.
MARTIN FISHER: How to decide to quit something you can choose to use your mind, or you can choose to listen to your body. You can choose to listen to the people around you or choose to do what’s best for you. And how do you listen to your body? Sit on a chair, bend forward and just let your body go limp. And stretch your head and your hands down to the floor. Count to five. One, two, three, four, five. And slowly sit upright, as tall and upright as you can. And listen to the messages your body gives you. Here you’re active. Here your body can inform you. Choose wisely.
NATALIE FARRELL: Thinking about this, it is the emotional attachment we have around quitting. And quit suggests failure. And failure is quite negative for us. So we want to be able to assess this rational or irrational process that we are going through. So the best way to do that is to talk. Talk it to somebody who is not attached at all and start to get more of a level neutral and a bigger picture, around the decision. And yeah, this is going to loosen lots of threads and create new threads, new possibilities through conversation.
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The final book is from Coonoor Behal with I Quit! The Life-Affirming Joy of Giving Up. She is the Founder & CEO of Mindhatch, a consultancy that helps companies create the right conditions for innovation and creativity to thrive using: Design Thinking, Organisational Improv™, Innovation Facilitation, and Diversity & Inclusion. Behal has written a collection of stories about everyday people who summoned the courage to quit things in their lives. Here she is speaking for New Degree Press.
COONOOR BEHAL: I decided to write this book because I’ve just always loved quitting stories. If you ask someone why, when they mentioned they’ve decided to leave a job, a marriage, or even a city, it can tell you so much about who they are. It tells you their values, what trade off they are willing to live with, and what matters most to them. My experience is quitting things in my own life have led me to believe that quitting is not failing, nor is it always about staying stuck. When we quit things that no longer serve us it actually often represents forward momentum. I think quitting can signal that we are making progress for what we actually want in our lives. My book is a collection of stories from real, everyday people, many of them recovering perfectionists. It also includes stories and perspectives and anecdotes from my real life. Though the stories are real and emotionally compelling, there’s also quite a bit of humour throughout. In this book, I share various stories and insights from people just like you and me who have struggled through making big life decisions for themselves. I share how they summoned the courage to quit and how for them, it led to more and better possibilities. The stories I share in the book span the breadth of the human experience. There are stories about people quitting their jobs and careers, quitting people and relationships, but also quitting identities, aspirations, and habits. There are certainly stories about big quits like quitting drugs or marriages, but there are also smaller quitting stories that are just as compelling and show just as much courage.
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In this self-help book, Behal gathers tales from nearly two dozen people who discuss the decisions they made to walk away from marriages, careers, hobbies, and other pursuits that no longer served a useful purpose in their lives.
The author says our society has a lot to say about quitting. Just Google “quitting quotes” and you will soon learn just how oppressive it is out there for all of us. Here are just a few examples. “If you quit once, it becomes a habit. Never quit.” from Michael Jordan or “Quitters never win, and winners never quit” by Napoleon Hill. We’ve grown up in a world that glorifies “sticking it out” as a path to success or to (equally undefined) “winning.” She says quitting is a choice. But so is not quitting, and both are equally hard.
The author adds quitting is usually a response to a negative outcome or experience. We quit people because they are failing us. We quit jobs when they start to make us miserable. We quit identities we realise we never chose. In general, we quit when something is failing us or when we are failing at something.
Behal also talks about her quitting inventory, which she says allowed her to re-examine her life choices. So the sentence starts with “I wasn’t willing to put up with” and proceeds to list these out including sexual harassment to living in a one-industry town.
Throughout the chapters, the author adds her own commentary and stories about things she has quit in her own life. She divides this into the following topics: Quitting due to gained knowledge, quitting to benefit others, quitting as an act of privilege, quitting things at which you excel, quitting as a singular act versus an ongoing choice to be made and quitting’s intersections with family, class, race, and culture.
The book opens with a soda addict’s recollection of giving up carbonated beverages for good in order to change how he projected himself to his daughter, and concluding with an account of ending an engagement shortly before the wedding.
Behal includes contributions from Younas, who ended his heroin use because he realised his life matters; Christina, who left a corporate job to train for the circus and then left the show after achieving her goal; Genevieve, who put her health as someone with epilepsy, ahead of a powerful consulting career; and Amanda, who is no longer a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and has put down boundaries.
There was also Kathy, who was a senior Vice President in a Silicon Valley firm, who realised it wasn’t about quitting. It was about choosing herself. And Devon quit dating men, realising that she was queer, and that her happiness was the main thing. Courtney realised she could never have children especially with polycystic ovary syndrome, so she finally stopped trying and redesigned her life without the idea of a nuclear family.
The stories reflect a variety of socio-economic experiences, though the author acknowledges that being in a position to quit generally requires some degree of privilege. One of the most compelling tales involves Leah, who was raised in an abusive family of drug dealers and dealt with addiction before choosing to walk away from the destructive environment she grew up in and turning her entrepreneurial skills toward more legal pursuits. She believed that life is sacred and that she needed to walk away from toxic relationships.
The author’s analysis—the structural and emotional barriers that often delay the decision to quit, the cultural stigma attached to it—is frequently intriguing, particularly as she discovers that the anti-quitting attitude she learned from her South Asian parents has its equivalent in other cultures, such as the book’s references to the “Puritan work ethic” and those chasing the unchaseable “American dream”. Yvonne was one of those people coming from a multicultural background, pursuing being a doctor. In the end, she stopped and embraced how people would react, and living a more authentic life.
So to sum up:
Godin says in The Dip that in life, you should strive to be the best at what you do. And to make this happen, it’s important to focus your time and energy on the one thing that you’re skilled and passionate about, and to let go of projects that are competing for your interests. Once you get going with a project, you will eventually face a Dip – a period of struggle, effort and little reward. To make it through this period, you must use grit and patience. Once you make it through the Dip, you’ll find that your skills have improved and that you are now in a better position than many of your competitors. Therefore, the Dip is the path to success. So keep going, especially when it hurts. Quit the things that serve you no purpose.
In I Quit, Behal says to quit is to change your mind. Quitting is progress toward the new.
She says what we quit is a reflection of ourselves. The reasons why we quit teach us a lot about who we are and who we want to become. Quitting is a means to learn about ourselves, to learn about our tradeoffs and our values. She encourages you to do your own “Quitting Inventory.” Even if you think you haven’t quit anything, you may be surprised by what a quick re-examination of your life choices yields.
I was notorious at quitting things, especially as a child. But life is not Groundhog Day, and we have limited time so use it wisely. Please join in on the conversation by following @howtobe247 on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, and subscribe to the podcast, which can be found via http://www.howtobe247.com.
Please leave a review if you found this helpful! Thanks to Sylvia Tillmann, who is a certified Tension Releasing Exercises Provider at Tremendous Tre, who said she “nodded along” to episode 67 on stress and our nervous system.
Just before we go, we get to hear from Oliver Rolfe, founder and CEO of Spartan International, a Global Life/Career and Health/Wellbeing Consultancy, and Executive Search business, self-kindness coach of Nourishing Soulfully Peta Coote, and Shona Hirons from Mindset in Motion, also known as The Burnout Angel. See you in two week’s time.
OLIVER ROLFE: Um, how do you know when it’s, um, ready and right to quit something that’s no longer working? Um, so I’ve written a book, ah, on this and I’ve got another book coming out shortly. And, um, one of the most important things in at least what I believe you’re looking for is actually self awareness. So the first and foremost about how you know when to quit something that, uh, is no longer working and when to stay put is actually knowing yourself. Um, because sometimes your, uh, own factors will change how you view your job. It could be a home, um, it could be economic factors. I think what we’re facing at the moment is a great highlight of that. It could be covered, um, or illness or whatever in that kind of element. So there’s a lot of factors that can actually change, uh, your mindset and how you think about something you perceivably thought you were happy with beforehand. It could be friends getting promoted around you, it could be people earning more money around you. Um, so the important thing is, first and foremost, is to understand yourself and to understand that these factors aren’t, um, a cause of why you’re feeling uncertain or unhappy or whatever the feeling you may be feeling at the time to think about leaving. And then once you’ve done that, it’s then working out the right time. Um, because making a move just because you have to or feel the need to do so is fine, but it’s better to do so with a plan behind it. Um, obviously this is. Um, my job is to advise, uh, many people, CEOs and below, um, in the city and all around. So, uh, invariably we’ve been given this advice. Um, it is something that we’ve seen has a positive effect. Um, and even at, ah, the senior end, when it comes to emotional intelligence, these are very important elements for, uh, one to, uh, focus on is it.
PETA COOTE: Kind to quit or to stay put? So ask yourself that question, am I being kind to myself or not? And just truly, really feel into that pause for a moment. Ask yourself a question. Because deep down, you know the answer. You have all the answers within you. But sometimes it’s really easy to let those outside sources interfere with our own opinions and beliefs and things. So ask yourself, am I being kind to myself? If not, how can I be kind to myself? How can I honour my needs? When we’re kind to ourselves, we prioritise ourselves. We’re more likely to notice those opportunities that come our way for what they are. And know that if you do quit, amazing things will come your way. As long as you’re prioritising yourself and you’re doing it for the right reasons, you’re always doing your best. Be gentle, be kind. You’re always doing the best you can always.
SHONA HIRONS: Let’s talk about quitting. Is it okay to quit? I say actually it is okay to quit. When you know that you’ve hit that ceiling, whether that’s the environment that you’re living in, or you’re working in, or maybe a toxic relationship, it is okay to quit. Um, you’re hit with a lot of quotes these days which say things like winners never quit and quitters never win. Um, or you only fail when you quit. And I disagree. And it’s got me thinking about things that I’ve quit. Um, and I don’t see any of these as failures. I say instead, I see it as courage, moving forward and being happy. So here are some of the things I quit. I quit smoking, I quit being hard on myself, I quit several toxic relationships, I quit procrastinating. And I quit a career that was no longer serving me. And I’m sure I could name plenty more, but you get my drift. And I think life is about learning, challenging yourself and rising to that challenge. So if you’re thinking of quitting as a failure, uh, then come and speak to me.